Non Jews Are Grafted In

 

Greg Norlen We are "grafted" in...Paul adds another shocking statement to those in the previous verses. He has said, in essence, that when it comes to being judged by God, Jewishness doesn't even matter. Specifically, the ritual of circumcision, which identifies someone as part of the Jewish community, is meaningless when not accompanied by obedience. Only those who keep the law will be declared righteous. Later, Paul will write that no one is able to keep the law (Romans 3:10), so all must be saved through Christ alone, by grace alone, through faith alone (Romans 3:22–25).

Cathy Gardino The link you shared titled "Who is a Jew" is a great example of why we should almost never take Biblical historical narrative to form Biblical doctrine.  The Scripture contains "didactic" verses, which is teachings and instructions that form the natures of existence, reality, and knowledge.  Biblical Historical Narrative simply sets the context for the teachings and instructions.  The link was condescendingly dismissive of what defines being a Jew in the only way that matters for the eternity of each individual soul.  It replaced what it means to be an authentic Jew in God's kingdom with the humanistic philosophy of blood lineage.  But 1 Timothy admonishes us to not consider the genealogies.  Yet here we are with the majority of Christians taking the humanism interpretation of who is a Jew and who is Israel, rather the Biblical teachings.  So why is it important?  Because the false teaching has us on the precipice of Global War, and tragedy is the fault of the Church bowing the knee to false teachings.  Again.

Greg Norlen and you think this isn't part of GOD's final plan? How do you think his return is accomplished? If we were not deceived, how would we be able to be redeemed? We are not dead and we can spread our version of the Christian message but we well NEVER be ONE VOICE because we have FREE WILL and we have our own decietful hearts and our own interpretations. WE ARE HUMAN... If you want one voice... YOU WANT ONE WORLD GOVERNANCE and I am afraid you shall have it. Yes we are all being falsely taught because the lies of Satan rule this carnal world we are breathing in right now. It is up to us to be THE SALT and THE LIGHT... We cannot even agree on how to be that! The simplest of commands we cannot seem to agree on! WHY? Are we all that dense that we cannot receive the message of redemption and of Christ and of our Creation and ultimate destruction by what is given as the Holy WORD of the One of Israel? I want peace on this earth, but it is not coming until GOD decides it and heralds his return and then and only then we might have the 1000 years of peace as prophesied. The Church has failed so many, just as it always has. Yet, I still believe.

Cathy Gardino The Dispensational Premillennial system teaches a 1000 year Millennial Kingdom of peace on earth, with Christ in the new temple and Jews ruling the World from Jerusalem.  Jesus to Pilate: "36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.".  -----  Cathy, one voice does not mean One World Government.  One voice speaks thusly; Ephesians 4 "  4There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all........ 14Then we will no longer be infants, tossed about by the waves and carried around by every wind of teaching and by the clever cunning of men in their deceitful scheming. 15Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into Christ Himself, who is the head. 16From Him the whole body, fitted and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love through the work of each individual part."

The many sects and many churches of men have polluted the purity of One True GOD... The Creator. They have chosen to ignore the Old Testament for The New when in reality they are both BOOKS OF LAW that mirror one another. One does not supercede the other. That is the mistake IMO is that we were taught that Christ superceded all that went before when he came and occupied a dirt body to show us his divine nature and what was possible. I see no need to even discuss this. It is not that deep and it is very simple. There is ONE GOD. The rest are but spirits both good and evil and we are mislead by men and spirits every single day of our lives. That is why we need both books of GOD's LAWs... It is our respect, reverence and practice of his laws that make for peace on earth. Mens laws will never bring peace.

Cathy Gardino The Old Testament (Covenant) has passed away, and is obsolete.  Hebrews 8:  13 In that He says, “ A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away."  Why is the Old Covenant now superceded by the New Covenant?  Because all of the Law and Prophets were fulfilled by Christ.  Jesus accomplished ALL of the following; Daniel 9:  "24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."

Greg Norlen Sorry Greg... I disagree... There are two books of LAW... not one and since the old has not "vanished" I do not agree it's "obsolete"...  we have not passed the tests. Covenents are contracts and they have been hideously broken.

Jesus conquered sin and death and rose.... He finished HIS purpose... where have we fulfilled and finished ours?

Cathy Gardino Your argument is not with me, it is with the Scripture that teaches the Old Covenant is fulfilled, and now obsolete.  What did Jesus teach about the Law?  Matthew 22: "34 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”   _________  There is no other Law.  The first 4 of the 10 Commandments are about loving God.  The final 6 are about loving your neighbor.

Greg Norlen The insult here is that you want yours to be the correct "doctrine"... While you quote Timothy Titus and Hebrews...  GODs word is GOD's word... While the apostles have been "agents" they are not infallible, nor are we in our own interpretations. I love you Greg and fully disagree with this notion that the Old Testament is superceded... I guess I had a different education in the word and the fullness there of.

Cathy Gardino Are you saying that what the Apostles wrote in the New Testament is fallible?  If so, which parts?  Would you name the person(s) that educated you in that conclusion?  Can you quote others throughout the course of 2000 years that teach that the writings of the Apostles are fallible, false, incorrect?  Do I correctly understand you that you are saying the Book of Hebrews is incorrect or falsely teaching the doctrine of the New Covenant replaces the Old Covenant?  Do you believe that Jesus failed to fulfill all of God's promises to remember Israel at His birth, ministry, crucifixtion, resurrection and ascension into Heaven?

Greg Norlen what does it matter what the definition is when terrorists are targeting civilians. Out right murdering defenseless non-combatants just trying to flee the danger. When you talk like you are, it makes one think that is ok with you.

Paul Shaneyfelt It is depraved, despicable and of the utmost evil what happened to Israel last Saturday.  Even if Israel has great guilt of mistreating Palestinians, which I think is doubtful, or exaggerated, there is never a justification for what took place.  Further, nothing that I have written indicates anything different than that very clear statement.  The context of my postings responds to the original post.  There has always been an Israel of God, and there has always been an Israel in rebellion against God.  Every major and minor prophet of the Old Testament bears witness to that fact, and the New Testament clarifies and defines the nature and existence of it quite succinctly.  So why does that matter?  Because Christians are called to bring the Gospel of Christ to the world, including unbelieving Jews.  A blanket support for Israel without including the salvation message to them is vacuous.  The most tragic thing of dying, being it natural causes or the demonic horror of last Saturday, is when a soul passes without confessing Jesus as Lord and believing God raised Him from the dead.  If you love the people of modern day natural Israel, you want them to know the only Messiah they will ever have before they die.  I sure do.  That is what Christian love authentically represents.

Greg Norlen The answer is... YOU DO NOT KNOW... You will one day, but at this moment in time, YOU DO NOT KNOW. WE BELIEVE... WE HAVE FAITH THIS IS CORRECT... but, until we make that journey, WE DO NOT KNOW. We only believe...It is called FAITH... in things unseen and no words on paper can provide that firm grasp... only experience, which is why we beleive, based on our experiences and our knowledge and the revelations of the spirit. We have carried the message to the unbeliever, around the globe and yet they choose not not believe. Belief is a choice. Faith is a choice. Christ is a choice. You cannot make anyone choose anything. You know this. And, the preachers, rabbis and theologians that I have studied under ALL HAVE DIFFERENT INTERPRETATIONS! Therefore, my only choice is to rely on FAITH that my understandings are true. Weak, maybe,... human and frail... you bet. That is the very reason I need Christ and my personal relationship with him. You see, he teaches without chastisement, he forgives continually and every single day his mercies are new... That is why I run to him, not the world. We all make choices with our free will.. We all make mistakes... WE ARE SPIRIT CONTAINED IN A DIRT VESSEL ON A JOURNEY THAT WE AGREED TO PARTICIPATE IN... For such a time as this...I believe we agreed to every single bump and burnish on ths road. Perhaps you do not, and perhaps that isn't found in scripture per se, but it is how it was explained to me long ago when I couldn't understand WHY I was suffering. When I took responsibility for my portion of this crazy journey, that was when I began to listen to and know GOD on an intimate level. I am not divine. His ways are higher than my ways. I will never worthy of what he has gifted me with. There is no point in arguing this because each individual person's experience is different. We can only grow in our knowledge by studying and prayer. GOD reveals himself to each of us individually and that is how we can each have relationship with him. The "fellowship" of men is truly secondary.  Share your knowledge and experience with GOD. Study his word. Do not despair if others don't share your experience. Only testify. "For we are God's masterpiece. He has created us anew in Jesus Christ, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago."Ephesians 2:10

Paul Shaneyfelt The argument is made that the land is the rightful ownership of the Jews.  There is a reason why God destroyed Israel in 70 AD, and there is a reason why there is no prophesy of natural Israel/Jews coming back to occupy the land while they still reject Jesus as Messiah.  It would be my desire that modern Israel comes to faith in Christ and be saved.  That goal of saving natural Jews to have eternal life is hindered by Christians that teach the heresy of a dual covenant theology.  That is just as cruel as what Hamas did last week to Israel.

Kay Jacobs Katz Correct... and Christians don't recognize the Torah as the first five books of the Bible... So what is the understanding of either the Jew or the Gentile? Is there no common ground? Is Judeo-Christian just another "social construct"?